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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline 
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I am trying to learn I finally have my horsebox back on the road complete with mot and a long list of advisories but I'm legal. It cost me several hundred pounds to get a servo and have it fitted but it needed doing and i feel a bit safer. So my next problem seems to be the battery, i don't know if i need a new one as the guy at the garage wasn't terribly interested in helping me with that problem. When i first had her she started every time now she wont ever start without being jumped! Mostly if i try to turn her over its totally dead no noises what so ever. Saturday i ran her around for about an hour after picking her up from the garage and Sunday she was as dead as a do do. It can take a number of attempts to jump her from my Clio because if the jump leads are not exactly in the right place she refuses to be started. What's the likelihood of it being anything else other than needing a new battery? ---------------------- |
 Tue 20 Jul 2010 @ 21:16
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Mr D.S.Joyce. Card Holder Posts : 280 Location : perth scotland uk Status : Offline |
Battery power, Hi karrie,It could be that you battery has died, and not able to hold its charge, or it could be that your alternator is not chargeing the battery. Or it could be as simple as a broken earth strap, at the battery box or at the engine to chassis earth. You could try using a jump lead, first from the engine to a clean earthing point, if that makes no change then try the jump lead to earth the battery to a clean piece of chassis. First take a look to see you have a drive belt to the alternator, and it is nice and tight. Doug. ---------------------- |
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Tue 20 Jul 2010 @ 21:48
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philbradshaw Card Holder Posts : 2336 Location : Haslingden Status : Offline 
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Check battery electrolyte level. Unless battery is 'sealed for life' type there should be 6 openings in the top (may be 6 clip-in or screw caps or a single clip fit cover); top up with de-ionised or distilled water to just cover plates inside battery. If electrolyte very low then battery may need 24+ hour trickle charge to recover after topping up. Check battery cable terminals if they're the bolt-on type for taper post battery - 
Smaller cable hole is correct for petrol models: cable conductor should be a close fit in the hole before the screws are tightened or the strands will splay out & corrosion eventually will prevent a good connection. To check alternator: voltmeter across battery should read 14.5-15V when engine running at fast idle. To check battery: charge battery until voltage more than 12.5V (up to 13.8V). Battery voltage dropping rapidly below 9V when starting indicates a tired battery. ---------------------- |
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Tue 20 Jul 2010 @ 22:43
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Mikeyboy Card Holder Posts : 536 Location : Stamford Status : Offline 
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had the problem Phil identifies below- he spotted it, but I also had the brush holders on my alternator break on the way to Malvern last year- and heres the interesting bit... As I was halfway betweeen home and Malvern and getting dark (very dark as my headlamps were failing),Id managed to get to a service station (well, blocked the entrance until someone helped with some jump leads) where I waited for the AA Being unable to help, he gave me a few options: 1. Get trailered home 2. Get trailered to Malvern (but no return home trip if I couldnt fix it) 3. A free, brand new £85 battery if I stayed overnight at the service station. This was cheaper for the AA than getting a truck out to rescue me. I took option 3 and was lucky enough to buy a very shiny alternator off Red Chrome at Malvern. The Immoral of this story is that if you havent used your breakdown cover yet then carry a broken alternator or duff battery which you can put on before calling the AA. hehehe ---------------------- |
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Wed 21 Jul 2010 @ 07:45
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spence Card Holder Posts : 196 Location : Blackpool Status : Offline 
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Hi Get your self a battery and alternator tester, go to www.screwfix.com they sell a basic one for £8.99 www.screwfix.com/prods/14456/Van-Car-Accessories/Battery-Chargers-Starters/Battery-Alternator-Tester I bought one, and its a great little gadget. Have you another battery you could borrow from a car etc that you could replace and see if that loses charge as well, if it doesn't lose charge then your old battery is dead, if loses charge, could something else be on draining your battery, and if all else fails its prob your alternator needing replacing. Check all the cheap options when fault finding first. ---------------------- |
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Wed 21 Jul 2010 @ 12:53
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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline
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Thanks all of you i will try a few things over the weekend and let you know what i discover. With so much work needed to keep the old girl on the road and safe for both me and my horse i sometimes wonder if i have bitten off a bit more than i can chew but i'm going to give it my best shot. 
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Thu 22 Jul 2010 @ 07:16
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Mikeyboy Card Holder Posts : 536 Location : Stamford Status : Offline
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Confucius say "every journey begins with one step" Beddy drivers just swear and curse till the thing coughs into life 
The more you try and tackle yourself, bearing in mind the support you get here, the more you will understand and even begin to diagnose and solve problems. 2 years ago, I knew the square root of sod all. Now Ive done loads which has given me a sense of achievement and faith that it IS possible! If you do something wrong, the chances are theres a simple solution. For anything more complicated, theres always folk here who can help. Dont panic- it upsets the horses! ---------------------- |
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Thu 22 Jul 2010 @ 12:16
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C.A.K Card Holder Posts : 149 Location : Staines Middlesex Status : Offline |
If you check the battery and alternator and find them ok - I once had an austin 1300 - which I would have to charge the battery on every night to have any hope of geeting to work the next morning - battery replaced twice, new alternator - no difference. Then the starter motor packed up - on fitting the new starter motor I never had a problem again - it had obviously been a problem for some time and was drawing far too much - I seem to remember you had problems with yours? Craig ---------------------- |
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Thu 22 Jul 2010 @ 18:25
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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline
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OMG got the old girl home so i can get at her, its hard to crawl around her when you are parked in a field with nettles up to you waist. She jumped first try and came home smoothly, but as soon as you idle the battery light comes on again and after switching off i couldnt re start again. Im off to buy the battery/ alternator test thing now and will try to get the battery off later or tomorrow morning. A few pictures of what bit of the battery i can get at without taking it off.They are rubbish pictures but its a start. www.flickr.com/photos/34301284@N07/set Because its right under the body of the lorry its not easy to get at. |
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Sat 24 Jul 2010 @ 15:43
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Gethin Moderator Posts : 4762 Location : Wesham. near Blackpool. Status : Offline 
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Sounds like you have a Bad earth on the engine. When you get the engine to run try turning the stop screw on the carb to increase the revs a bit. Then using a voltage meeter find out what the voltage on the battery is, Another check to do is leave the positive lead of the voltmeter on the battery and put the other on to the engine. both readings should be identical. ---------------------- |
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Sat 24 Jul 2010 @ 17:14
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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline
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I'm working my way through all your ideas one by one:) Today i tested the battery before i jumped the box and it was very poor , no surprises there then. I jumped her and got her going then tested the battery again and got all lights ablaze so i think that means the alternator is working ok?!? I watched a tutorial on the internet and managed to get the battery off which was a feat in itself as the location isnt great. The negative terminal was very lose and i could almost lift it of without undoing it, the positive was on about right. The terminals look mucky so i am about to watch another tutorial on how to clean them and i will then trickle charge the battery and try again. Keep everything crossed for me . |
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Sun 25 Jul 2010 @ 10:51
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philbradshaw Card Holder Posts : 2336 Location : Haslingden Status : Offline
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You may have found the fault, or at least a major one - one terminal loose on the battery is enough to prevent full charging & starting current to pass but won't prevent jump starting. If the battery cables are long enough it should be possible to sit the battery on a support next to the cradle (e.g. an upturned plastic bowl or stack of bricks) so that it's easier to tighten the connections after which the battery can be lifted onto the cradle. Hot water will clean off most grey-green deposits from cable & battery terminals after which a wire brush should brighten them up enough to make good connections. Once everything is clean & tight some Vaseline slobbered over all exposed metal of the connections will keep then electrically clean for longer. ---------------------- |
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Sun 25 Jul 2010 @ 12:55
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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline
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Its been a long hard week in many respects so no time to post but i have been busy and am more confused than ever. My battery has been on and off the lorry all week and im getting quite fast at it now. I put the battery on a maintenance charger and after a few hours i had to take it off becsue i thought the plug would melt in the socket it was so hot, but the reading the the tester had gone from red to yellow. Not enough in it to start the lorry so i tried jumping and running but a few hours later i couldnt start her again. Someone then popped the battery on an old fashioned trickle charge for about 36 hours and told me it hadnt charged and i needed a new one. In order to move the lorry to get a new one i needed to re connect anyway so i cleaned up the battery terinals on the battery and the lorry . At this point my neighbour took pitty on me and came out to help , he offered me the use of his new charger and even though everyone said the battery was dead i thought why not give it a go.I connected the new charger and it went straight to battery full maintaining so all the charging had already worked . I reconnected and turned her over she tried to catch once then after that several rounds of rapid clicking then nothing. So im wondering about the starter motor again. So my next question is : If it could be the starter motor why does it jump without a problem, is this usual? I have had starter motor problems in a car before but i didnt get the rapid clicking on turn over just a clunk. I will try giving the strater a good wack with something today, in my car i used to use a pool cue and it was perfect for the job but i no longer have one but maybe a broom hande would do it. Chat soon |
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Fri 30 Jul 2010 @ 06:46
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Mikeyboy Card Holder Posts : 536 Location : Stamford Status : Offline
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I had exactly the same problem, but after replacing the earth strap from the engine to the body and from the battery neg to body, the difference was immediate. For the cost of it, it saves alot of worry. If youre losening any connections to check them, its worth giving them a good clean and again a dab of caseline when reconnecting. Most of the time its the simple stuff! ---------------------- |
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Fri 30 Jul 2010 @ 08:17
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spence Card Holder Posts : 196 Location : Blackpool Status : Offline
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Before going out and buying a new earth strap, connect a jumper lead from the battery negative to the chassis and try starting her up. Next check the earth strap from the body of the inside of the engine bay that is connected to the engine. the clicking sound your hearing when trying to start her is a sound I've heard before when trying to start my camper up with a low battery charge, so I don't think its anything to do with your starter motor. Can you borrow a battry of another vehicle to fit to your beddie if everything sounds fine then its a new battery you need, specially as the battery you have, doesn't seem to be charging, but check your 2 earth straps first. Good luck. ---------------------- |
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Fri 30 Jul 2010 @ 11:42
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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline
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I did the checks and it made no difference. SOoooo while i was at work she was kidnapped and taken to a friendly person who knows what they are doing. They changed the battery and also found a small oil leak coming from a gasket on the rocker cover and that it had fouled the alternator. It doesn't mean a great deal to me but i can see where it was. I think he tightened the gasket but i believe i still have a smallish leak somewhere and that's my next job probably along with a new alternator. The work was done very cheaply and it turns out the mechanic knows CF's well and spent a few years doing up a camper van for someone else. So thanks for all your help, maybe if i had made the connection between the oil leak and the non starting i would have mentioned it and we may have discovered the problem earlier. Next time i will tell all even if it seems unconnected. |
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Fri 30 Jul 2010 @ 21:55
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nigelnikkiCF250 Card Holder Posts : 118 Location : Herts Status : Offline 
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I had this problem with my CF when I first got it. The alternator covered in oil, and not charging the battery. Turn out someone had put too much oil in the engine, 4 litres extra… listening to the engine it sounded like a washing machine, guess the crank was swimming in oil. I took the easy way out and bought a new alternator and rocker cover gasket (including oil filter + oil change), but I guess I could have just cleaned all the oil off the old alternator and seen if it still worked. Nigel. |
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Sat 31 Jul 2010 @ 09:56
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karrie Card Holder Posts : 21 Location : milton keynes Status : Offline
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Update Just a quick update .The old girl is starting every time although i haven't been on a run with her yet. Today she is being kidnapped again and taken to another friend of a friend who has offered to help me for a small fee . I think he is changing the alternator due to the oil damage and hopefully will finish the repair on the oil leak itself. I think something needs to to the exhaust and that will also be checked. So all being well i shall be halfway through my list of MOT advisories before to long. I still have plenty of other stuff that needs doing to bring her back to her former glory and i will do as much as i can myself ( with your help) but i have decided the more difficult things should be done by someone who has the time and the knowledge to do it properly. Having a lorry starts every time is such a confidence giver and i'm looking forward to taking her out again now . Before i didnt even want to think about it . After having to be jump started on a petrol forcourt i realy lost my confidence in her and didnt want to go through that again. Thanks again k |
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Thu 05 Aug 2010 @ 08:36
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